LOVE LESSONS | Therapists talk couples counselling.

2018: Back in 2005, I was tasked with writing a goofy article about “annoying couples to avoid” or some such nonsense. I was also asked for “expert interviews” so I approached several Vancouver-area therapists looking for quotes.

One was Jeffrey Fisher, now retired. The other was a Dr. Bea MacKay, who I believe is still practicing in Vancouver. I spoke with Fisher on May 27^th, 2005 by phone. I was just quote-fishing, but he said two things that were very interesting to me, though not at all in line with my goofy assignment. Specifically,

“Relationship breakdowns are usually about some fundamental fracture. Something happens and the couple doesn’t deal with it. One person tries to pursue and the other tries to avoid or escape. Or both are escapists. Or both are pursuers.”

“People are all the same. We all have the same intimacy needs. It’s just a matter of how people react under pressure.”

For me, this was enough to warrant a follow-up interview by email. The results were, I thought, not bad. My interview with MacKay went similarly, though she sent me back a block of text as opposed to answers to specific questions. Using this expert insight, I hoped to convince Dose to let me write a longer, significantly more serious piece about love and relationships.

Predictably perhaps, this was not to be.

So I’ve included both my complete Q&A with Fisher, as well as  MacKay’s comments (below), here instead.

Think of this as a sort of love-and-relationship-problem primer, filled with information on the patterns that these experts see emerging frequently in their respective practices, as well as some therapeutic suggestions and insight into what to expect were you to seek couples counselling yourself.

Q&A with Jeffrey Fisher, M.A., RCC:

Photo by Henri Pham on Unsplash

JS: In our initial conversation you mentioned that people are largely the same – that we all have intimacy needs. What types of concerns do you see that relate to differing levels of comfort with intimacy?

JF: Actually although most individuals have intimacy needs they often vary in their level of comfort around intimacy. Some individuals deny their intimacy needs. Others are preoccupied with intimacy needs. Some are fearful of intimacy and others are perfectly comfortable with intimacy.

When couples come for counselling they often present very little of what is going on beneath the surface. Instead, what the therapist gets to see are patterns of interactions which tend to keep the real issue of intimacy and connection well hidden.

Sometimes relationship problems begin when one or the other partner has felt emotionally abandoned or has felt [they have] been shamed or otherwise hurt by the other.

Most of the time couples have lost the ability to support or encourage the other in a way that is meaningful for the partner. It’s as if the couple has lost sight of what it was that brought them together in the first place. Instead what you may see is one person who pursues the other for connection, frequently in a blaming way, at the same time that the other retreats or withdraws.

These kinds of patterns really end up being destructive and often degrade into silly arguments about petty things that have nothing to do with the real issues or the original emotional injury.

Probably the most effective therapy for couples finding themselves trapped in these types of patterns is Emotionally Focused Couples Therapy.

It was developed by Dr. Susan Johnson of the University of Ottawa. The approach helps couples unravel the unhelpful patterns and get at core needs to re-establish the relationship bond.

It’s very powerful and uplifting when you get to successfully use this approach and see couples reconnect around what love should be.

JS: Are those needs different in relation to gender? How so?

JF: It is really great when we as therapists avoid preconceived notions about how men and women relate around intimacy. The real truth is that we never know how a couple will present themselves when they come for therapy.

It is not really surprising to see a man who is more comfortable around intimacy and connection than his female partner. Much of what happens relates to family of origin and what clients have experienced and/or witnessed in the relationships of their primary caregivers.

Levels of comfort around intimacy vary between partners.

This is true whether they consist of heterosexual couples or gay and lesbian couples, etc. It is always interesting as a therapist to realize that all of one’s pre-conceived notions can go out the window at any moment, with any couple.

Comments from Dr. Bea MacKay:

In couples counselling I see my role as facilitating a couple in developing a good working relationship. With a good working relationship a couple can handle anything that life hands them whether it be positive or negative.

Having differences creates chemistry.

Having a good working relationship enables couples to work thru their differences and tolerate perpetual problems that cannot be resolved. Couples counselling is about identifying dynamics and building on the positive and changing the negative. Often individuals know that what they are doing does not work in their relationship, yet they keep doing it because they don’t know what to do instead. In couples counselling each is helped to learn different ways to be in the relationship that still allows them to be themselves.

The thing is, relationships change over time.

For example, I worked with a couple who had been married for 50 years. In their early years, he was the dominant, abusive one and she was the passive abused one. Now in their golden years she was the dominant abusive one and he was the passive, abused one. Also, sometimes with one partner a person might be passive yet with another partner they are egalitarian.

I am currently writing an article on the stages of long term, committed relationships. As relationship evolve and change there are specific times when the relationship needs to reorganize. It is at these times that relationships are most vulnerable.

Even in healthy relationships couples sometimes ‘go to the brink’.

In order to achieve change the old order needs to be shaken up so a new order can materialize. The purpose of this article is to bring to awareness how relationships change over time and there are times when relationships are more at risk (for example, when the youngest child enters school).

I develop self-help tools to help people sort out their thoughts and feelings when they are conflicted about whether to stay or leave the relationship.

I don’t know if I answered your question but I hope I’ve given you food for thought.

The article that contained tiny bits of these interviews was published in Dose on July 7, 2005. You can see the print clipping below. More interviews (mostly with celebrities, haha) are here. 

Published in Dose, July 7, 2005